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Post by Blue Sunflower on Aug 17, 2008 5:48:01 GMT -5
I'm wondering how they're going to handle Sam's dad being missing, and if Kyle is going to make an appearance. I would guess that Sam will find out Dad's alive by Episode 13, but when the Big Reveal comes, will it give an Even Bigger Reveal, or an Even Bigger Mystery?
And will Sam find out by accident, or on purpose? Will this be the straw that finally makes Sam turn away from his parents? He idolizes them far too much, even for a regular person - let alone one whose parents sold his soul to the Devil.
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Post by pacejunkie on Aug 17, 2008 17:51:39 GMT -5
I don't think he idolizes his parents, I think he just loves them, and like any kid that loves his parents its a harsh reality when you realize that they're not infallible. I think he's having a hard time reconciling the anger he has to have towards them for what they did to him with the love he feels. This came out a bit in Cancun, but I'd like to see it explored more, and learning his father is alive might just be the emotional trigger that sets off more anger than joy, because it would represent just one more lie in this web of deceit.
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Aug 17, 2008 17:58:02 GMT -5
I gotta disagree. Up 'til Cancun, I think he idolized them. The way he wistfully talked about how them to Cady, and the conversation he had with his dad about Andi's necklace and how Dad and Mom got together...yeah...Sam wants to be Just. Like. Them. despite the fact they sold their oldest son's soul to the devil.
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Post by pacejunkie on Aug 17, 2008 18:00:07 GMT -5
I gotta disagree. Up 'til Cancun, I think he idolized them. The way he wistfully talked about how them to Cady, and the conversation he had with his dad about Andi's necklace and how Dad and Mom got together...yeah...Sam wants to be Just. Like. Them. despite the fact they sold their oldest son's soul to the devil. Agree to disagree then. I think its plain old love, but since I don't have shaving cream, I'll just smite you. ;D |
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Aug 17, 2008 18:15:30 GMT -5
Agree to disagree then. I think its plain old love, but since I don't have shaving cream, I'll just smite you. ;D Dammit! I only had 2 to begin with! Curse you and your new bathroom!!!! |
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Sept 12, 2008 16:57:44 GMT -5
From LATimes: HA! They'll NEVER be good at what they do!  |
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Post by pacejunkie on Sept 12, 2008 22:55:45 GMT -5
I saw this and I didn't know if it was considered a spoiler or not. Glad you posted it. So Sam unable to capture an important soul? That sounds amazing. And I wonder why this soul is so key and what information he may have.
And yeah, love Michelle's comment. It reminds me of what Sock told Sam about not being good at anything so he'll probably screw up ending the world too.
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Sept 13, 2008 1:39:25 GMT -5
So Sam unable to capture an important soul? What I'm wondering is why the Devil would let him get away with that. Remember, he doesn't accept failure. |
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Post by cko on Sept 13, 2008 2:02:50 GMT -5
So Sam unable to capture an important soul? That sounds amazing. And I wonder why this soul is so key and what information he may have. I was assuming this is someone we've already heard about in a spoiler; the Red Sox fan who somehow thwarted the Devil? And if it is, then I have an answer to Blue's question, but it belongs more in the spoiler thread, then. |
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Post by cko on Sept 16, 2008 23:21:00 GMT -5
ksm's question from TWoP:
This brings me back to the question of what the other reapers are like. Are they demons or other minions? Are they alive humans who've sold their souls? Are they people who've been sent to hell for some reason or another that now feel remorse for their actions? Other?
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Post by pacejunkie on Sept 17, 2008 6:15:12 GMT -5
I certainly think Sam's situation is unique, but essentially he's a sold soul. My guess is other people who have entered into contracts with the Devil find themselves pimped out to work the streets too.
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Post by cko on Sept 18, 2008 2:34:10 GMT -5
I don't know if this is spec, or wish list, but I'm hoping they meet some other reapers this season. It's a great opportunity for guest stars, and would provide some variety in the characters, moving away from SOTW and family members. I'm guessing the other reapers are in a similar situation to Sam, more innocent types. Seems like they'd be easier to "manage" than escaped or embittered types.
Though I guess if you got your soul sold, you'd be bitter. Sam is unusual that way.
"Accepting my stupid fate makes my life easier."
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Post by pending on Sept 19, 2008 1:23:29 GMT -5
I'm going to be blatant about what I'd like in season 2: more Steve and Tony. We've really barely scratched the surface for what demons and angels are like, and what rules they're playing by; S&T provide characters we already know and are very popular, but allow for the mythology to be fleshed out a little.
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Post by varcinie on Sept 19, 2008 18:05:59 GMT -5
pending, as will surprise absolutely no-one, I totally agree. And even if not Steve (because can think of a couple of good reasons to keep him off-screen for a while, at least), any more angelic activity might be interesting. And as much as I do love Steve and Tony, I too would really love to see different kinds of angels and demons interacting with each other and with Sam. Well, more the angels, because we've seen plenty of demons.
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Post by cko on Sept 19, 2008 18:17:21 GMT -5
There's always the question of the demons that have Sam marked for death. Any spec on how that will be played? Will it be an undercurrent or recurring theme to weekly story and overall mythic arcs? Like, what was that show (The Pretender?--or am I mixed-up?) where he had adventures, but always the undercurrent of that corporation trying to find him, which occasionally surfaced as a main plotline.
I thought somehow we knew S &T weren't returning, but I don't remember how/why now. I hope I'm wrong because I'd love it.
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Post by pacejunkie on Sept 19, 2008 20:41:01 GMT -5
Well didn't Ken Marino get cast on another show? I remember hearing something about that last spring and we figured he wouldn't be on much if he was back at all. Michael Ian Black I just assumed would do other things because he's so in demand.
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Post by pending on Sept 19, 2008 22:25:29 GMT -5
I'm going to be optimistic; both have in-show reasons for their characters to be scarce, but both also would have reasons to guest-star for important episodes.
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Post by pacejunkie on Nov 12, 2008 15:16:30 GMT -5
Just finished out my rewatch. I'm rethinking this whole thing about Sam's birth and the great lie. According to Tony in Cancun, the real deal was that Mr. and Mrs. Oliver "agreed to bear the child of Lucifer". Let's think about this. If this is true, then they needed a favour from the Devil and in exchange they agreed to raise his child. Why would the Devil not want to raise his own child? Too busy? Or did he actually feel love for him and decided he wouldn't make a good dad? Maybe he wanted to see how the kid turned out with better or neutral influences before reclaiming him at 21.
The only remaining mystery then is are the Olivers human? My guess is the story of Gladys was the hint that a mortal weapon can't kill a demon, but the cage could still ensnare one. So Mr. Oliver survived but needed Mrs. Oliver to get him out. I'm thinking she's human and he's a demon and they wanted to get married and have kids. Since its biologically impossible they made this deal with The Devil and there you are. Doesn't explain Kyle, but I think Kyle has quietly been written out to avoid the complication. Sam's an only child now.
Sorry if this has all been said before, it just seemed a little clearer to me now after the rewatch so I wanted to lay it out. So is it that simple? Is Sam adopted?
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Post by pending on Nov 12, 2008 16:51:52 GMT -5
The weirdest thing for me is that Tony buys this. Why wouldn't the Devil raise his own son?
Worried Sam would get hurt if people knew he was the Devil's son?... the Devil's [nearly] omnipotent, how big would that threat really be?
Wanted him to turn out well?... Then why's he spending so much time trying to get Sam to sin?
Too busy?... Why's he spending so much time with him now?
Just didn't care?... Again, if that's the reason why all the quality time right at 21?
I know I've been beating this drum since the days of the TWoP board, but I still don't go for the theory that Sam's the Devil's son. It just doesn't make sense.
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Post by joshcarter on Nov 29, 2008 8:42:19 GMT -5
Oh, I like when Sam replied with, "Hey, thanks." It's a scene that I'll never forget. At least, not for now, anyway. You know, to be honest, I never thought of the Devil as his Dad. For one thing, why would he act so moodily around Sam when Sam rejected his ice cream? (Yes, I know, it could have been part of the trap for the rebellion, but still) Plus, Mr. Oliver didn't die, and Mrs. Oliver seemed a bit too... Neutral about her husband being buried alive. This is what I think. What I think is, Mr. Oliver is Sam's Dad, but for some reason (I'm still working out how and why) the Devil is his uncle. He seems to me like an uncle that's trying be the favourite to one of his nephew. EDIT: Oh, I have one reason for the whole "the Devil is Sam's uncle" thing. (guys, add more if you agree/want to) Sam's Dad is somehow the Devil's brother, and the contract has something to do with it. I'm probably wrong, though, but that's my theory. |
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kathyk
Demon
Bounty Hunter Extraordinaire
Posts: 165
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Post by kathyk on Nov 29, 2008 13:03:34 GMT -5
I've never believed that Sam is the Devil's son. I think Sam is the key to the Devil's redemption he doesn't know it yet. Remember Bret's comments about not wanting Reaper to be offensive to religion? If Sam were the Devil's son the Religous Right would have a fit and possibly get the show canceled.
I think it will be more interesting to see how Sam reacts to his dad being alive. Will Sam still love them after they have been lying to him all along? IMO that is the more compelling story.
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Post by cko on Nov 29, 2008 13:04:55 GMT -5
Now this is a new one. Intriguing. Everyone knows I'm terrible at speculation, since I keep changing my mind. I'll add this to my mental list and let it whirl around.
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Nov 29, 2008 22:02:00 GMT -5
I think Sam is the key to the Devil's redemption... See, now this is why I am starting to think Sam *is* the Devil's son. The child redeems the father. I think one of Sam's greatest powers lies in the fact that he can convince the Devil to do something good - like he did when returning Gladys. I personally can see a situation when say at the Final Judgment, where Lucifer is being judged and about to be thrown into the Pit for all time, he can point to Sam as evidence that he at least did something right. Lucifer *is* the ultimate lawyer, having been the first prosecutor. But mainly, I think he would do it because he *does* love God, it's just God has turned away from him, and he knows he's since followed a path that will never bring him back. Kinda like separated souls: It'd be like his last offering towards God to show that while he was evil, he wasn't ALL bad. There was something redeemable about him, even if it wasn't much. |
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Verse
Fallen Angel
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Post by Verse on Dec 16, 2008 0:08:57 GMT -5
I read it from Wikipedia. =D All sorts of informations only made my confuse. There are so many versions of the Devil.  Though, I don't believe he was all evil, I agree with blue. Yeah, I agree. More the angels. It would be better if Angels and Demons met. The Devil in Reaper loves Ice Cream VERY MUCH. Yeah, ice cream rocks! |
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Post by cko on Dec 16, 2008 19:43:50 GMT -5
Oooh, I hadn't thought of this. I still wonder if we're going to see any of this in the next season.
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Post by joshcarter on Dec 26, 2008 14:23:18 GMT -5
Although, if Angels and Demons met, what do you think would happen, actually? Would it be a war, or would the Angles be meeting the Demons for some sort of diplomatic peace talk from God to go against Lucifer? (Okay, I just realized how dumb that last part sounds...  ) Well, I guess we'll just have to wait until March... Show of hands, who else can't wait for the show to continue? ETA: Wait, forget that. I'm pretty sure that was a dumb question. |
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Dec 26, 2008 19:15:22 GMT -5
Although, if Angels and Demons met, what do you think would happen, actually? Would it be a war, or would the Angles be meeting the Demons for some sort of diplomatic peace talk from God to go against Lucifer? (Okay, I just realized how dumb that last part sounds... ) I actually have an idea on that for a fanfic, but I don't have enough "stuff" in my head to make it a real story. Just an end scene. Kinda need more there.  But to answer your question, I think it could be anything. Maybe something happens that neither side wants yet (like maybe Armageddon), and they need to meet to get it stopped.  hee! if you look at their mouths, it almost looks like they're saying "i do!" |
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Post by pacejunkie on Dec 26, 2008 21:49:45 GMT -5
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Post by joshcarter on Jan 1, 2009 15:19:54 GMT -5
Hey, you know, it actually does! Haha, that's cool!
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Post by reapermaniac on Feb 17, 2009 16:55:35 GMT -5
joshcarter
i love you pic its really cool!
sorry that was so random but i thought i would say something
soz
but cool though
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