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Post by Blue Sunflower on Mar 17, 2009 13:52:19 GMT -5
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Post by stinger97 on Mar 17, 2009 20:05:11 GMT -5
Awesome episode. I love, love, love Nina!
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Post by pacejunkie on Mar 17, 2009 20:31:59 GMT -5
Sorry, I think I was late in unlocking the thread. But anyway, here we go...
I really liked this. Nina was great. No Kristin. I love how Sam gives Andi pointers on how to handle Sock. Oh, and for the under thirty among you, Les Nessman was a broadcast journalist character from WKRP in Cincinnati. Pretty random reference but that was it.
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Post by stinger97 on Mar 17, 2009 20:46:37 GMT -5
Oh, thanks Pace for clarifying who Les Nessman was. I had a feeling it was some sort of inside joke but didn't know exactly what it was. That seriously is pretty random.
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Post by varcinie on Mar 17, 2009 20:49:11 GMT -5
Wow, haven't posted here in a while.  Though I have been checking in, now and then. Anyway: I think this may be one of my favorite episodes overall. Definitely my favorite this three episodes worth of a season so far, and a lot of that was honestly because of the soul. I'm trying to remember if I'd ever seen Erik Palladino in anything before, because he was familiar looking to me, but that just might've been from ER promos so...anyway. He was great; sad, contemplative, genuinely regretful. Loved that he gave Sam more of a moral dilemma than usual. I think he's the first soul who has been genuinely good, and honest, and not double-crossed the boys in the end, and that was pretty interesting to think about. He gave Sam several chances when he could've just killed him. He chose to save him and went back to Hell for it. I was hoping he was going to get redeemed, honestly, and was kind of upset he didn't, but at least it established rules: there aren't any second chances. If you're in Hell, then that's where always going to end up. But even though that was kind of a downer, for me, I really did like it. Liked the rest of the episode, too; Nina is adorable, and her and Ben's relationship is surprisingly sweet. And reminds me in a weird way of Donkey and Dragon from Shrek, especially when she's in demon form, but it's cute, I like it. Andi bringing in the grief counselors was brilliant, and Sock's wake for "Les Nessman: We Hardly Knew Ye!" cracked me up. So yes, I really did love this episode. In the top five for me, definitely. |
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Post by stinger97 on Mar 17, 2009 20:56:45 GMT -5
Ooh, I want to say that the most awesome moment of the night (aside from when the gang first met Nina at the bar) was Sam fighting Red, and while retreating, getting his foot caught in the ropes and knocking himself out. That cracked me up.
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Post by pacejunkie on Mar 17, 2009 21:03:06 GMT -5
This is Les Nessman. He was a funny character but only because he was such a dork. But this is hands down the funniest scene from the show. The radio station did a promotion for Thanksgiving where they dropped live turkeys from a helicopter. This is the horrifying result:
"As God is my witness I thought turkeys could fly." ;D
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Post by pacejunkie on Mar 17, 2009 21:07:52 GMT -5
Forgot to mention (thanks varcinie!) -- the grief counselors and their sweaters were priceless.
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Post by wdpender on Mar 17, 2009 21:08:02 GMT -5
A very good episode. I think it seemed so much better because the first two episodes were very average to below average (mostly due to No, Josie's plotline). This was more like the Reaper I've come to know and love.
By the way, did anyone notice that the scene with Andi, Ben, and Sock depicted in the advance still releases for this episode (http://www.reapersite.com/reaper203gallery3.htm) was not in this episode ... or did I miss it?
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Post by pacejunkie on Mar 17, 2009 21:10:43 GMT -5
It was not. Either it was mislabeled and it will appear later or it was a deleted scene.
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kathyk
Demon
Bounty Hunter Extraordinaire
Posts: 165
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Post by kathyk on Mar 17, 2009 21:52:07 GMT -5
I loved it. Nina is so much funnier than Kristin. I felt so bad for Sam he really took a beating in this episode. I loved all the interaction between Sam and Red. This episode won't be deleted for a long time.
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Post by cko on Mar 17, 2009 22:16:58 GMT -5
So cristin yelled at me for being online during the show, but I just have to say Les Nessman hahahahaha! Oh pace! I love you for finding that clip. I'll watch it after.
My brother is watching along with me and laughing quite a bit. Okay I'll be back later.
Later: Oooh, good ep. I liked the combination of lightness and melancholy, as varcinie said (hi, varcinie!), with the soul being such a good character, with a real storyline and personality. I hope they keep doing that. It'd make for good guest star opportunities. The Andi/Sock/Les storyline was funny.
And I know I was worried about the possible inappropriateness of the 12-step storyline. No, it wasn't at all respectful. But showing the Devil's evil side, and playing against an extremely recognizable TV/movie trope was rather brilliant, though risky. I wonder if this is going to be controversial on some of the recovery-oriented blogs, though. Which I'm sure there are some.
I too like Nina--she *is* like Anya!--and though I too dislike the Kristen storyline, I'm not too comfortable with the comparisons between them; not sure about that.
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dagzar
Fallen Angel
The Ultimate Lurker
Posts: 25 
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Post by dagzar on Mar 17, 2009 23:07:28 GMT -5
Okay, I think this is one of the best episodes in the season. I didn't have the urge to fastforward during any of the scenes (not that I could anyway) and I liked both the soul and Ben's girlfriend. The best part of the episode was the 'Les Nessman', Sock and Andi's fight for dominanace and the last scene where Sam tells the Devil at how he (the devil) did a good thing.
I rated the episode an A- because it didn't have anything to do with Sam's mom or the father crisis.
Also, did Sam refer to the Devil as 'dad' when he was talking to the soul in the bar? I think he said dad, though I think I may have misheard it.
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Post by bec on Mar 18, 2009 0:10:13 GMT -5
I didn't hear dad, but my hearing isn't the greatest, so don't take my word for it.
That was an awesome look on Ray Wise's face after Sam told the Devil he did a good thing. Not sure how to describe it... maybe it was a "oh hell no" look?
I seriously burst out laughing when Andi said Les Nessman is dead. I was meh on the wake. Didn't really like Sock getting the last laugh. And it reminds me of all those times you get coerced into donating towards something you couldn't care less about when you're already making way too little money, that makes me as annoyed as Sam and Andi. Andi was already doing him a huge favor as a friend, what with not even threatening to report his fraud to corporate, which would have gotten his ass fired and possibly jailed.
Nina attacking the burger with a giant knife was great. "I didn't attack Sam with a knife. I attacked his burger. I wouldn't need a knife to kill Sam." "What did you say?" Bwaha! Yeah, I do believe if she still wanted to kill Sam, she could have done it already, without needing any weaponry. And if she was trying to trick the guys she wouldn't have blurted out she's a demon and get Sam's guard up.
Yeah, I liked it, but I'm a little dissatisfied due to the continued lack of Sam's parents. What gives, show? *grumble grumble*
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Post by cko on Mar 18, 2009 0:22:15 GMT -5
I know, bec, it's almost getting weird. If they didn't have a plan for this absence, they're gonna have to retcon it, because it's getting bizarre, not in a good way. I mean, personally I can wait, but it makes no sense in terms of believability.
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Mar 18, 2009 1:07:09 GMT -5
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Mar 18, 2009 2:01:58 GMT -5
Floved it, but I'm too tired to write a cohesive list. Just that floved floved floved it, and floved floved floved the overarching theme of redemption with Red, Nina, and the AA meetings. Yeah, I liked it, but I'm a little dissatisfied due to the continued lack of Sam's parents. What gives, show? *grumble grumble* Mr. Oliver will be in the next episode. |
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Post by pacejunkie on Mar 18, 2009 7:31:36 GMT -5
Just a quick mention about Cassidy -- while I'm glad they saw fit to mention her and explain her absence, I wish they had come up with something more credible than she gave up on him when he was in jail. We saw her last season excited at the prospect of Ben being free to date her when he got out. He was only in jail for one week. It doesn't make sense that she would have had a change of heart and dumped him. Of course they had to come up with something, but I didn't like it, it just rang false.
But at least they said something. Now someone needs to mention Josie. They were all a lot closer to Josie it's like pulling another Kyle that she's just gone like amnesia.
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Post by loandbehold on Mar 18, 2009 9:51:51 GMT -5
Best episode of the season so far (yeah, only the third, but really a huge leap forward). Consistent throughout and funny from the get-go.
Soul was great. Really put Sam in a moral quandary. It's good for them to get away from the typical stop the soul-of-the-week format. And the AA meeting - classic. The Devil, he doth tempt everyone. I just wish we could have seen the Sexaholics Anonymous meeting that took place afterwards.
Nina was very funny. I agree that her and Ben are quite the cute and touching couple. Still, if I were Sam, I wouldn't be resting easy so long as she's around.
Loved, loved, loved Andi getting the best of Sock, even though he did get one last hurrah. He's been stealing from the company for two years, but that's over now. And the grief counseling was a brilliant touch.
Not only the Les Nessman shout-out to WKRP, but there was an episode of M*A*S*H where Hawkeye (w/ Radar's and Trapper's help) created Captain Tuttle, hero doctor. The character contributes 2 years' worth of salary to an orphanage, which attracts the attention of a general who wants to give him a medal. So, they "kill" Tuttle by having him jump out of an airplane, sans parachute. [/trivia]
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Post by pacejunkie on Mar 18, 2009 13:46:39 GMT -5
I mentioned that last night on TwoP.  ETA: Got your PM tho'. |
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Mar 18, 2009 13:48:31 GMT -5
The one thing that always bugged me about the Rebellion-hates-Sam-and-wants-to-kill-him was always WHY? What precisely did Sam do? I'm very happy Nina spelled it out last night: that Sam is the Devil's right hand. THAT makes more sense than that they simply hate him for being the Devil's son or that he managed to piss them off somehow. It also makes me go hmmm...if the demon underground recognizes Sam's position, if the Devil's ACTUAL right hand men won't recognize that as well. tv.ign.com/articles/963/963721p1.html |
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Post by cko on Mar 18, 2009 22:33:19 GMT -5
Oh, pace and lo, great minds. I didn't think of the MASH thing, though of course I remember that episode! I like all the shout-outs and tropes on this show.
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Post by bec on Mar 19, 2009 0:14:15 GMT -5
Yeah, the "Cassidy gave up on Ben when he was in jail" thing made me go "huh?" big time. I'm not a stickler for flawless continuity, but at least don't contradict something the show itself made a big show out of only a few episodes ago.
Actually, the Nina eats a whole bloody cow thing bugs a little, too, since the show has established that demons can lead pretty regular lives, like Gladys and Steve and Tony. But I'll just take it that maybe she's way more fresh out of hell than those other demons.
I think they've already made it pretty clear since last season that the demons think Sam is somehow extra special to the Devil. So this is one of those things the show is doing right. I don't have a problem buying that the rebellion would turn their thirst for destruction over to having Sam as their target even though most of the demons really don't know Sam or what he does exactly. He's just a more convenient target than the Devil, who would be a lot harder to destroy. It's almost like this is a parable for certain events in this century so far!
That's actually pretty interesting to think about. The demons that try to kill Sam are the ones that are NOT trying to be evil, like Nina said this ep, she's "totally a hero", since she is part of a movement to bring down the Devil. Really, they're sort of on the same side as Sam. Kinda. Except Sam is kind of conflicted since despite all his "I hate you" talk to the Devil, he seems a little fond of the Devil despite of himself.
Like the "good demons", Sam wants there to be no more evil, but he doesn't like that this means the demons try to destroy him (or that they even try to destroy the Devil). I think the ideal for Sam would be turning the Devil good without having to destroy him, so nothing bad has to happen to anyone and all can be sunshine and rainbows ever after.
Which... makes it even more interesting that Sam was oh-so-happy to tell the Devil that the Devil inadvertently did something good, and the Devil had nothing to say to that except look kind of stumped. Hee. It's like almost the ultimate victory for Sam! Reminds me of when he smiled knowingly and told the Devil he knows he's full of it at the end of Leon, and when he gave Greg his soul back at the end of Greg Schmegg.
Hey, maybe that's why Sam is REALLY special. He's somehow the only one capable of persuading (and sometimes tricking) the Devil to do good. Maybe that's why the Devil keeps trying to get Sam killed but doesn't just do it himself. The Devil is conflicted, too, when it comes to Sam. Oh, I would love for that to be part of the twist.
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Post by cko on Mar 19, 2009 0:45:10 GMT -5
Aha! bec! This helps me clarify why I've been rather confused by the different "sides" in this battle. Now it's making more sense. However, where does Gladys stand in this? And Tony? Not to mention Mr. and Mrs. Oliver?
Oh wow. Are you sure you don't want to do the recap for this Episode? I'll give you all the notes I have so far?
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Post by bec on Mar 19, 2009 1:57:09 GMT -5
I think Gladys is too wary to be taking any sides completely. But it's pretty clear that if she has to choose between her fellow demons or Sam, then... sorry Sam, nice knowing ya. I think she figures that Sam will get his ass killed sooner or later, so it's best not to stick her neck out for his sake (so she went along with her "book club" because she's not about to say no to them for Sam). But she's not going to go out of her way to hurt Sam like some of the other demons do. To her it's not worth the effort. And okay, maybe she likes Sam a little. But not enough to consider him a friend she'd protect. Just slightly fond.
Tony... he's another character that's still making me wonder where he is and whether the show had unceremoniously dropped him. Yep, him and Mr. and Mrs. Oliver are just big question marks. I doubt Tony would still be trying to kill Sam, though, after seeing Steve and saving Sam from the other demons. Maybe he's going around doing random acts of kindness like Steve did. And maybe he's kind of a demon outcast, since he's neither evil, nor trying to "fight evil by killing Sam" like most of the rebels seem to be doing now.
Hee, I'd love to do a recap sometime, but my plate is a bit full at the moment. Maybe in April?
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Post by pacejunkie on Mar 19, 2009 7:06:24 GMT -5
Episode Five is the next available one Bec. That's April 1st.
And great insights here. I hope I have half as many when I have to do my recap next week. I've been feeling kind of brain dead lately.
But it's true what you say about some demons being more demon-y than others. I think that's a good choice. It means they're not all plain evil, there are shades of grey like with humans. Buffy did that quite well. Initially demons were just things to be slain and then we met Anya and Clem and saw there were all kinds of demons living all kinds of ways. And I like how these rebellious demons that want to kill Sam are actually the good ones and the ones that think of themselves as heroes. Sam is actually safer with the bad demons. I think in the end Sam will have to meet with these rebellious demons and have a parlay, form an alliance somehow to work together without a repeat of last year's fiasco. But maybe this time he can convince them that Steve's way is right and if nothing else get them off his back.
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Post by bec on Mar 19, 2009 12:35:26 GMT -5
That's a Wednesday, is the show moving timeslots? Is it kind of fitting that it'll be April Fool's Day? |
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Post by pacejunkie on Mar 19, 2009 15:14:28 GMT -5
That's a Wednesday, is the show moving timeslots? Is it kind of fitting that it'll be April Fool's Day? D'OH! No, sorry, March 31st then. If you want April I suppose it could be episode 6 then, April 7th, or any date after that of course. Your choice. |
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kathyk
Demon
Bounty Hunter Extraordinaire
Posts: 165
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Post by kathyk on Mar 19, 2009 19:11:49 GMT -5
I don't think any demons can be considered good if they are trying to kill Sam. I said to CK last night in chat that I think the Devil is really responsible for the attacks on Sam. I'd love to see Tony take a more active role in protecting Sam. I don't think Mr Oliver is good since he hid what he was from his son.
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Post by cko on Mar 19, 2009 23:40:29 GMT -5
Ah, kathy, but we were also talking about Could Demons Try to Reform? and I definitely think yes. Even Mr. Oliver, maybe.
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