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Post by Blue Sunflower on Sept 6, 2008 22:57:27 GMT -5
Hmm. Once again I'm torn between "yes" and "something else". I vary day to day, and sometimes hour by hour.
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Post by onyourmark on Sept 6, 2008 23:03:05 GMT -5
Since "I have no idea" is the closest thing available to "All of these options are equally hilarious and I could not possibly choose."
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Sept 6, 2008 23:07:40 GMT -5
Aw. I knew I should have made this a yes/no only vote. Pfft.
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Post by cko on Sept 6, 2008 23:07:57 GMT -5
What's the difference between "Absolutely not" and "He's something else" ?
And OYM, long...vote.
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Sept 6, 2008 23:10:57 GMT -5
What's the difference between "Absolutely not" and "He's something else"? Aw crap, yet another mistake! I was thinking "something else" would be like he's the Devil's grandson or other demon-spawn or something. "Absolutely not" meant he was just plain Sam Oliver. Man, I suck at polls. |
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Post by cko on Sept 6, 2008 23:13:40 GMT -5
Naw, it's funny. Make people choose. I only abstained because I'm over here answering 462 questions on this dating site and I'm getting burned out! I'll choose later.
But Blue, I had no idea you were undecided!
PS. More polls! They are great for starting discussion.
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Post by amber on Sept 6, 2008 23:31:33 GMT -5
Something else. They made it so everyone is focused on the idea that he's the Devil's son so that the future twist will have more impact.  |
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Post by cko on Sept 7, 2008 0:05:41 GMT -5
..I agree! It's gotta be something, but not what we think.
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Post by pacejunkie on Sept 7, 2008 14:33:12 GMT -5
I voted something else. He's definitely more than plain human but I'm not convinced the Devil is daddy.
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Sept 13, 2008 1:45:43 GMT -5
Currently my waffling has settled on a choice, although that doesn't mean I won't change it.  I'm gonna go with "Something else" and "grandson". I've been thinking Sam's mom is the Devil's daughter. Everyone was all into the Devil's reaction to Sam asking if Cady was the Devil's daughter, and the Devil's "so close" look meant Sam nailed someone as the Devil's kid. But what if Sam nailed the Devil had a daughter - Sam's mom. I also think Mom's reaction in the Pilot would fit with this too. Her sitting on the bench "You tell him he can take me now" would go with the theory. |
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Post by pending on Sept 13, 2008 23:54:37 GMT -5
I've got a new debate angle:
Sam Oliver cannot possibly be demon-spawn, because the CW heads would shut it down. There can't be two demon Sams on the same night of television, and we all know Reaper's going to be sharing a few Thursdays with Supernatural.
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Sept 14, 2008 0:45:23 GMT -5
I've got a new debate angle: Sam Oliver cannot possibly be demon-spawn, because the CW heads would shut it down. There can't be two demon Sams on the same night of television, and we all know Reaper's going to be sharing a few Thursdays with Supernatural. Is that how they're going with Sam? Ugh. Well, maybe that just adds to the theory that there's a twist to *our* Sam. I'm still on Mom's-the-daughter train. It's too odd that the Devil would take Mom for *Dad's* contract. If Sam refused to work, wouldn't the Devil just kill his dad? Especially since the contract was supposedly to keep dad alive? |
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Post by edgyauthor on Sept 14, 2008 9:17:36 GMT -5
Was the Dad the one responsible for making the deal with the Devil? I've had it in my head that since he was the one sick, that the Mom made the deal in order to keep him alive -- therefore, if Sam refuses to work, then her own soul is forfeit.
I don't like the idea of Sam being the Devil's grandson, because then that'd mean Kyle is also the Devil's grandson. (Yeah, Kyle has disappeared from the show, but I'm hoping they're not going to act like he never even existed in the Reaper-verse in the first place.)
I think it might be possible that Sam IS the Devil's son, but that that doesn't make him evil. Yeah, he's the Devil, but he was once an angel, right? So, if Sam is his son, the genes he inherits are angelic, and that's why the Devil is always trying to corrupt him, so he can "fall" and be just like daddy. It might also explain why a contract was needed for him to own Sam -- he's actually a powerful source of good, so owning him more efficiently keeps God from utilizing him as such.
Wow. That sounds really far-fetched, haha. There are so many other plausible theories out there that I'm not entirely sure what to think.
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Sept 14, 2008 14:45:01 GMT -5
Was the Dad the one responsible for making the deal with the Devil? I've had it in my head that since he was the one sick, that the Mom made the deal in order to keep him alive -- therefore, if Sam refuses to work, then her own soul is forfeit. Well, Sam's dad said the deal was made for him to stay alive from his "illness." Mom was suspiciously absent from the talk, although I get the impression that BOTH parents signed the contract. Fanwank! Kyle's adopted. He *does* look like an Italian in a family full of Swedes.  I'm kinda a fan of either Sam or Kyle being adopted, mainly because to me it either solves that "Kyle" problem, or gets rid of the ick factor. If the Devil is Sam's dad, then I really don't want Sam's mom to be his real mom. What had to have happened for that is too dark to contemplate, not to mention quite a bit squicky. No, it's not far-fetched. I'm rather fond of this too. It would explain why the Devil adores someone so obviously good as Sam, and why he lets Sam get away with all his goody-two-shoes stuff when he's doing his Reaper work. Remember, the Devil is capable of Love, and I can see him holding a parental love for Sam. Sometimes I play with the idea that loving Sam is in a way a substitute for his love for God. That's supposed to be the Devil's punishment, and he's trying to find a replacement. And as much as the Devil wants to love something, I can see God's warped sense of humor giving him essentially what amounts to your typical teenager. I read this, and thought it was interesting: I heart Joseph Campbell. |
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Post by novium on Sept 14, 2008 21:03:31 GMT -5
I have no idea where they are going to go with this, I'll admit that. However, I can express an opinion on what I'd like to see. And being that sam is such a sympathetic character in a comedy, what I'd like to see is his life made more complicated :-D. Poor sam. The spawn of satan angle certainly adds a lot of that.
What I'd really like to see is some sort of double subversion, you know, where you are made to think one thing, and then that's thrown out the window, but then in the end, throwing it out of the windows was in fact part of the larger truth. Which was the first thing, except turned 90 degrees.
Ok, I realize that sentence is very incoherent, but I'm too tired to try it again.
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Post by cko on Sept 15, 2008 2:01:22 GMT -5
It's not incoherent, novium, it's thought-provoking. Though I can't imagine what kind of twist/double twist it would be, I hope the show writers have the ability to do something like this.
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Post by pending on Sept 16, 2008 1:33:46 GMT -5
Not so! Surely lots of suburban housewives would be up for a wine-fueled night with Ray Wise. It doesn't always have to be a 'Rosemary's Baby' drug-addled nightmare scene.
Remember that what the Devil did win though is some autonomy; Sam is probably all his idea, whatever's going on. I think of Sam more as the Devil playing God, getting himself a lieutenant to mold in his own image, order around, and lecture.
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Sept 16, 2008 1:49:17 GMT -5
Not so! Surely lots of suburban housewives would be up for a wine-fueled night with Ray Wise. It doesn't always have to be a 'Rosemary's Baby' drug-addled nightmare scene. Stilll...squick. I also don't like the idea of Sam created in an affair outside of marriage - especially one known about by dad. It's too Indecent Proposal. I would much prefer Sam was created in some moment of good - not sin. If that makes any sense, which I highly doubt it does. Let's just say *I* know what I mean... Sam may be the Devil's idea (which I agree with), but that doesn't mean God's not involved. Keep in mind that Tony apparently told Sam he couldn't let Sam die because "God had a bigger plan". And fwiw, that's the way I always read Steve's goofy grin at Sam when Steve was an angel. Like a big ol' sing-songy "I know something you don't". |
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Post by novium on Sept 16, 2008 17:33:08 GMT -5
They need more "I know something you don't" moments, IMO. :-P Thinking back over the season, they're fun.
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Post by pending on Sept 17, 2008 14:21:54 GMT -5
But that's not really possible; Sam's dad's life was saved by the Devil, so him being around to procreate goes against God's will. If he was alive to have sexy time with Mrs. Oliver, it's only because they bargained away Sam's life.
Random theory: how funny would it be if Sam was Tony's son? Twist! It could be like a really bizarre version of when awesomely gay couples hire a surrogate.
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Sept 17, 2008 17:13:03 GMT -5
But that's not really possible; Sam's dad's life was saved by the Devil, so him being around to procreate goes against God's will. If he was alive to have sexy time with Mrs. Oliver, it's only because they bargained away Sam's life. Ah, that's not quite what I meant. I was thinking of the ol' wedlock/outofwedlock stuff from the Church (and medieval history come to think of it). Being born in wedlock - best because that only taints the child with Original Sin. Being born out of wedlock - no good, kid is tainted with Original Sin plus out of wedlock birth. Being born out of affair from one parent in a (holy) marriage: Well, that's just adding two more sins to taint the child's birth (out of wedlock, extra-marital affair), in addition to Original Sin. Unless one can argue Sam's conception is some kind of perverted Mary/Joseph thing, then I'm on fence as Sam being created with a Devil/Mrs. Oliver affair as baaaaaaad. |
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kathyk
Demon
Bounty Hunter Extraordinaire
Posts: 165
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Post by kathyk on Oct 18, 2008 21:40:23 GMT -5
I believe that Sam and his family are all human. Why would the Devil need to sign a contract for Sam's soul if Sam were his son? I think demons lost the ability to bear children when they rebelled against God. The Devil said in the first episode that he knows God will win in the end.
I think Sam is insurance for his parents. I'll bet that the contract states that as long as Sam works for the Devil his parents can't be harmed by other demons.
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Post by cko on Oct 18, 2008 22:32:48 GMT -5
I never thought of it from this angle, kathyk. This makes sense. But then how do we explain Sam's Dad surviving at the end?
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Post by reapercast on Oct 18, 2008 22:43:01 GMT -5
If you're going by what kathyk said, which does make a lot of sense now that I think about it, it would explain why Mr. Oliver was able to survive. If I remember right, and I might not cause its been awhile, it was Tony/other demons who left Mr. Oliver in the cage and buried him alive.
If kathyk's theory is correct, that would mean the Olivers can't be harmed by demons (i.e. Tony, et. al) and would have been able to survive being trapped underground because of the fact that it was demons who put him there.
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Post by cko on Oct 18, 2008 23:13:06 GMT -5
Ohhhh, yeah. Okay, that makes sense. I guess I'm a bit slow tonight...I think it's all this music I'm listening to. Now I'm convinced. Sam's parents are human. Sam too.
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Post by pacejunkie on Oct 18, 2008 23:29:44 GMT -5
I believe that Sam and his family are all human. Why would the Devil need to sign a contract for Sam's soul if Sam were his son? I think demons lost the ability to bear children when they rebelled against God. The Devil said in the first episode that he knows God will win in the end. I think Sam is insurance for his parents. I'll bet that the contract states that as long as Sam works for the Devil his parents can't be harmed by other demons. That's a really good point, that if Sam were the Devil's son the Devil wouldn't need a contract to claim him. Now why would Sam's parents need protection from demons though? If they're human, what is their history with demons that they'd have to enter into some contract and offer up their son for protection? |
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Post by evilalex on Oct 19, 2008 1:59:31 GMT -5
If you're going by what kathyk said, which does make a lot of sense now that I think about it, it would explain why Mr. Oliver was able to survive. If I remember right, and I might not cause its been awhile, it was Tony/other demons who left Mr. Oliver in the cage and buried him alive. If kathyk's theory is correct, that would mean the Olivers can't be harmed by demons (i.e. Tony, et. al) and would have been able to survive being trapped underground because of the fact that it was demons who put him there. it would also explain why sam had the power to holdoff the washing machine when thy tried to kill him to see if he was spawn of satan |
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Post by novium on Oct 19, 2008 2:46:35 GMT -5
I think the implication of the satan-spawn thing was that the contract would be for sam's...um...creation, and not his soul necessarily, thus solving the question of how the devil could have dominion over him what with the whole free will issue.
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Post by cko on Oct 19, 2008 18:27:14 GMT -5
Lots to think about here. I wonder how much of this will be clarified in the new season. Novium, nice to see you--find us in chat sometime!
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Post by hypercaz on Feb 7, 2009 7:05:53 GMT -5
Much as I really, really, REALLY want Sam to be Satan-spawn... no. I don't think so. I think he's half-demon, though. However, I did have a theory for Sam being Satan's son, whereby Kyle became the actual first-born of the Olivers, because if Sam isn't both their son... |
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