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Post by Blue Sunflower on Mar 24, 2009 17:23:10 GMT -5
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Post by pacejunkie on Mar 24, 2009 21:26:53 GMT -5
First to post? Moi? I loved this ep. Morgan is hot, damn him. Why is he a sociopath, he's hot! I love how difficult he makes Sam's life now, as if the Devil wasn't bad enough. I didn't even mind Kristin this week because she was used really well which is to say hardly at all. The Nina/Ben story was great too, Ben was hilarious at psyching himself up to have sex with her in demon form. "I can drink straight from the bottle." heh. The Ted/Sock story was good too. Andi does not have it easy but she's doing great and I love that the focus is off her relationship with Sam and she has something else to do. I like her a lot better now. And of course the big reveal. And can I say Bret was amazing here? As soon as he heard that voice he looked suitably terrified. And OMG I wasn't prepared for his dad looking like a corpse. I thought he'd look like before but he's like the walking dead. I need more info now! ETA: And first Les Nessman and now, the famous Edmund Fitzgerald, of song and story. |
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Mar 24, 2009 21:49:08 GMT -5
12 more minutes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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dagzar
Fallen Angel
The Ultimate Lurker
Posts: 25 
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Post by dagzar on Mar 24, 2009 23:01:23 GMT -5
Nice. I enjoyed the episode. I thought Morgan was more annoying then hot, though I just had to laugh at his and Sam's rivalry. I'm also very glad that Sam's dad finally showed up and I was really surprised at how he looked. At first, I thought it was the lighting, but he really does look like some sort of zombie.
I'm really looking forward to the next episode. Maybe we'll finally get some answers. Hopefully.
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kathyk
Demon
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Posts: 165
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Post by kathyk on Mar 24, 2009 23:31:04 GMT -5
The soul grab was awesome! Sock was annoying me worse than Morgan. I think Sam is one of those half demon half angel children that Nina was talking about. Ben and Nina are great together. The Devil was playing mind games with Sam in their last scene.
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Post by cko on Mar 24, 2009 23:41:55 GMT -5
Pace! Going for the alpha guy! H-town must have frozen over!
Wow, a lot happened in this episode. Guess that's all I have to say for now. Heh.
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Post by pacejunkie on Mar 25, 2009 6:23:48 GMT -5
She was talking about angels before the Fall having relationships with humans. That would have been quite a long time ago so I don't think it would apply to Sam.*
Alpha guy? Morgan/Armie's no alpha guy, he's totally metrosexual, nary a square jaw or a thick neck in sight. He looks like a Calvin Klein ad. He may have it over Sam but that's only when you put them side by side. I guess metro is the only word for a guy that's not quite alpha not quite beta.
And speaking of Mr. Oliver, this answers a question I had, which is if he is playing dead, how does he just return home and to his work and life? The answer is he can't, and particularly not so long as he looks like a zombie, so he's living in the garage and hiding from the world. Sucky life. Is that what he meant when he told Sam that if he told him the truth it would all fall apart (ie, the illusion of their happy family life)?
*ETA: I lied. Thinking this through over in the mythology thread, I came up with this, and if I say so myself, it's damn good:
Mr. Oliver is an Angel who falls in love with Mrs. Oliver a human. Somehow, the Devil learns of this relationship before God does. Knowing that since the Fall, God has looked down upon these relationships, the Olivers are forced to strike a deal with the Devil for the protection of their family -- give their child over to him and he won't rat them out. They concoct a contract and fake story about "selling" Sam's soul to the Devil and there you have it. The big secret is that the Devil is protecting them (and getting Sam from the bargain, a half angel child that he can corrupt). You could look at it and say the Devil is doing a good thing here, protecting the Oliver family from God's wrath.
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Post by pending on Mar 25, 2009 7:25:39 GMT -5
I called it! I totally called it! Whatever he traded, he got some sort of eternal zombie life in return. If I don't see a nose/ear/eye fall off in Zombie Mr.O's next scene, I'll eat my hat.
Morgan's a fake alpha guy, but it has nothing to do with a square jaw or thick neck (a meathead, in other words). Alpha guy is the one who takes charge, gets things done, gets what he wants, guys wanna be girls wanna be with, etc. Morgan is the appearance of that to a T, but then when gold bugs start coming through the vents he screams like a girl.
I loved it when Gladys called him a "GAP ad". The sibling rivalry was awesome, mostly because of how hard the Devil was pushing it-- the end where Sam grabs the coins and bolts? And then the Devil takes them away and gives them to Morgan? Ray Wise is genius at the end with his stagey "Or MAYBE I should be grooming YOU for the role, HMMMM?" He's definitely figured out the right button to push, if Sam's gone from not wanting a Soul's money to fighting over living cockroach gold coins.
I'm sad that Kyle doesn't exist anymore, because if he did we'd have an great line to draw between Sam being his parents' favorite despite his underachieving (based on what we saw in the 1st season) and how badly he's now dealing with being the non-favorite, unimpressive achiever. Did anyone hear an echo of "How come HE gets a car?!?" when Sam complained about Morgan getting the loot?
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Post by pacejunkie on Mar 25, 2009 10:06:53 GMT -5
That's true, Sam has in a way become Kyle. For those who remember Kyle, it's a nice tie. Shame they couldn't make more of that with Kyle gone, but it is ironic.
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Post by cko on Mar 25, 2009 11:16:31 GMT -5
That's IT!!! I just know that's it. Plot bunny, pace!
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kathyk
Demon
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Post by kathyk on Mar 25, 2009 13:27:56 GMT -5
Isn't God supposed to be more forgiving now? Sort of the difference between the Old and New Testaments. I can't see God punishing Sam for his parent's actions. If God didn't approve of the Oliver's marriage why was Kyle allowed to have a normal life? I think Mr Oliver can't die as a result of his deal with devil.
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snare
Fallen Angel
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Post by snare on Mar 25, 2009 13:29:23 GMT -5
I loved when sock was in the office and he was like Touché, Andi, Touché  |
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Post by pacejunkie on Mar 25, 2009 13:51:26 GMT -5
Isn't God supposed to be more forgiving now? Sort of the difference between the Old and New Testaments. I can't see God punishing Sam for his parent's actions. If God didn't approve of the Oliver's marriage why was Kyle allowed to have a normal life? I think Mr Oliver can't die as a result of his deal with devil. I don't think the deal has anything to do with it. Mr. Oliver can't die because he's an Angel. I think Nina told that story to Ben as a clue to us. In fact, she specifically mentioned what children of these unions are called even though it wasn't relevant to her story since she told Ben she didn't have a child. I think that information was for us, because it relates to Sam. According to her, the humans were punished and the Angels were banished. There's nothing in the show to indicate that this policy has changed, just that the offending Angels learned their lesson and presumably deterred the rest from engaging in that sort of behaviour. But what if the Olivers were the first ones to try it again after many years? And I wouldn't let Kyle interfere with this theory, since it's a good bet Kyle no longer exists in canon. |
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Post by bec on Mar 25, 2009 19:17:57 GMT -5
When Andi told Sam to deliver the freezer to his mom's house, I was like "Eeeee!"
I was expecting some kind of awkward small talk with his mom at the most, since I figured this was the (slow) pace they were using with this storyline, but Sam's dad showing up looking like a zombie. YAY! Sam looked so freaked. He probably thinks his dad is an escaped soul.
Andi is pretty awesome thwarting Sock's schemes.
Even Nina is more relevant now, with that contribution to the whole demon, angel, human mythology.
Still don't see the point of Kristin, I hope she has some relevance to some of the arc-plots, too, otherwise she's kind of a waste of time.
I don't know if I'd really like Sam to be some kind of angel/human hybrid. I really would rather he just be human and what makes him special is not his genes or whatever (also I guess I'm still holding out hope that his brother is still in the picture and not just dropped like "what brother?"). But at least I'd like the angel/human hybrid thing better than him being a devil child.
I did like the Morgan storyline, though. Morgan sort of reminds me of Jim from The Office, oddly enough.
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Post by pacejunkie on Mar 25, 2009 19:57:34 GMT -5
Seems like no matter what, 100% human isn't an option since clearly both potential dads have something not human going on.
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Post by bec on Mar 25, 2009 20:26:33 GMT -5
I don't know... Mr. Oliver could have become whatever he is now later on. Or he's still actually human, just made immortal with the price (besides his firstborn) being that zombification. Oh, but I just had the thought that maybe Mr. Oliver is a neither demon nor angel, but a nephilim. So that's how Nina's exposition ties in! Sam's not a nephilim, his dad is. Still doesn't explain how nephilims are giants in mythology, but I guess Mr. Oliver shrunk over time like many old people do? So that'd make Sam only 1/4 (fallen) angel/demon. Still mostly human. Like 3/4 human. But too bad it still means Kyle should still not exist now.  |
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Mar 25, 2009 20:59:02 GMT -5
'K, I have been anxiously waiting for this episode ever since we got the sides for Morgan. Much like Erik in the last episode, Armie Hammer was INSPIRED casting. When you read the sides, they are quite dorky plain. It was hard to imagine really how Morgan was going to come across, especially as anything other than one-note. But the way Armie did the second scene? With him and Sam in the car? AWESOME. Floved that he whispered his most threatening lines. He and Bret work great together. I loved all the sibling stuff. And Bret totally rules the direction "Sam sulks." For both scenes, it was like the sides were the cliff-notes version, and the filmed sequence "The Lord of the Rings" movies. Quite a difference! Other notes: 1. Dammit. It does not look like Morgan is under contract. The show better explain that. It rather ticked me off when the Devil said "and by favor, I mean you don't have a choice." Because clearly, Morgan *does* have a choice. One reason I thought is that maybe it's because Morgan is eager to please Daddy, but Sam is not. Therefore, the Devil needs more "incentive" to get his little boy to work for him in the first place. 2. The mythology stuff is whoa. I put a major post up in the Myth thread about it. 3. Did not need the Les Nessman Part Deus plot. Sock really pisses me off sometimes. And I can't see how making Sock Ted's trainer is going to teach Sock anything, since it's basically just making Ted Sock's little work monkey. Do love that Ted is back though. Also loved Andi being Smart Girl and solving everything. I'd call her Velma, but she's so much hotter. 4. The running joke of everyone loving Morgan - right in front of Sam - was great. His line to Andi "Don't say it" "I'm sorry Sam, but he's great" "I told you not to say it" just awesome. 4. Flashbacks? I was only joking with my Reaper: The New Lost post. 5. Loved the soul capture (although how the hell did Morgan manage to get himself trapped in the pool in like 2 seconds?). Sam is so awesome. The soul's mouth was ubercreepy and I loved it! I can't remember exactly what it reminds me of though. Sam's little "don't bite me" was hysterical. 5. Best. Detail. Of. The. Night.: Closed Captioning has captioned that little "Reaper" musical intro that takes the place of the credits. Apparently the "music" is saying this: Stuck in the middle of a situation
Situation
Situation
Whoww! Still don't see the point of Kristin, I hope she has some relevance to some of the arc-plots, too, otherwise she's kind of a waste of time. I actually laughed at Not!Josie tonight considering her only value to tonight's episode was how she thought the superficial women were the way to go. Meta! I loved when sock was in the office and he was like Touché, Andi, Touché Hee! And dang you snare for figuring out how to do the ascii code here. I have yet to make it successful. Morgan is the appearance of that to a T, but then when gold bugs start coming through the vents he screams like a girl. This? Is IMO the Devil and Morgan's relationship to a T. On the other hand, Ray and Bret [glow=red,2,300] RAWKED[/glow] the house tonight with their chemistry. That was one of the BEST portrayals of a father/son relationship I've seen. Those two are real, not fake. They are connected, if not in body then at least in spirit. Every single scene with them was an absolute joy to watch tonight, even moreso that usual. Funny how Morgan and Genghis Khan being the Devil's kids didn't phase her, but when Sam went all "I'll sic my Dad on you" about Alan's address, she totally toppled. Like Mark said, it was hilarious how the Devil was acting like it was JUST occurring to him. Somehow I'm betting him throwing Morgan at Sam is only to annoy Sam. There is no motive here to try to make Morgan a Better Son. Morgan, I think, better watch out. I also thought it interesting that at least two times the Devil prevented Sam from taking ill-gotten gains: the lottery ticket (it was Ben's) and the coins (because of the blood money). I mean, if the Devil wanted a prime opportunity to try and sully Sam (like he did with the bank robber's cash, or with Greg or Taylor) this seemed to me to be the prime moment. But instead, he didn't let Sam take the coins - when so clearly (because of the sibling rivalry), he would have. Do love though how Morgan *is* pretty much the definition of the beginning of the Anti-Christ. Everyone loves him, and it's not until later that his true evil shows. Seems like no matter what, 100% human isn't an option since clearly both potential dads have something not human going on. Not necessarily. Have you ever seen Death Becomes Her? Awful movie, but with one of the most disturbing plotlines. And although it was played for laughs, I couldn't help noticing the horrificness of it: There's this lady who gives people immortality, which she gives to Goldie Hawn and Meryl Streep. The catch? Your body HAS to stay alive. Your soul is tied for all eternity to its form. If your body dies, then you will remain stuck in that body as it decomposes. Predictably, Goldie and Meryl "kill" each other, and force Bruce Willis to keep doing make-up on them to keep their bodies looking alive. But by the end, Goldie and Meryl have so destroyed themselves, they are merely pieces of their bodies scattered on the front porch. I mean, can you imagine that? Spending eternity in a piece of your body that isn't any bigger than your eyeball? And unable to move, since your arm is in a completely different place? Awful movie. Mr. Oliver can't die because he's an Angel. I was going to just re-argue that Mr. O isn't an angel because of his body changes, but if you're right and he's a "newly fallen" angel, then it's possible his form is starting to transform itself into more of a demon shape like the other Fallen Angels. ETA: I lied. Thinking this through over in the mythology thread, I came up with this, and if I say so myself, it's damn good: Mr. Oliver is an Angel who falls in love with Mrs. Oliver a human. Somehow, the Devil learns of this relationship before God does. Knowing that since the Fall, God has looked down upon these relationships, the Olivers are forced to strike a deal with the Devil for the protection of their family -- give their child over to him and he won't rat them out. They concoct a contract and fake story about "selling" Sam's soul to the Devil and there you have it. The big secret is that the Devil is protecting them (and getting Sam from the bargain, a half angel child that he can corrupt). You could look at it and say the Devil is doing a good thing here, protecting the Oliver family from God's wrath. I responded to this in the Mythology thread. |
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kathyk
Demon
Bounty Hunter Extraordinaire
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Post by kathyk on Mar 25, 2009 22:16:47 GMT -5
ITA about Bret and Ray having great chemisitry. Someone needs to cast them in another project when Reaper ends. Ray said Bret was wonderful in an interview earlier this year.
I disagree that the lottery ticket was ill gotten gains. Ben gave tickets to Sam and Sock. Once someone gives you a gift you lose the rights to it. Ben didn't ask Sock to pay for his losing ticket. Sock is really annoying me this year. He seems to be taking avantage of everyone and getting away with it.
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Mar 25, 2009 22:34:15 GMT -5
ITA about Bret and Ray having great chemisitry. Someone needs to cast them in another project when Reaper ends. Ray said Bret was wonderful in an interview earlier this year. I just can't stop rewatching them this episode. The pawn shop was so perfect. Sam with his "bored now" attitude, and the Devil being all devil. I was thinking more on the order of complete selfishness, which usually isn't Sam. Normally I think he would share. Taking the ticket on its own without paying for it is more Sock IMO. |
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Post by beatrixkiddoe on Mar 26, 2009 7:33:33 GMT -5
I really liked this episode, the soul really creeped me out and that doesn't usually happen. Does Morgan remind anyone else of Captain Awesome from Chuck? ETA: I forget to mention how much I love the term "Horn Hag", it even inspired me to design a new shirt: www.cafepress.com/tvmademedoit/6587320 |
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Post by loandbehold on Mar 26, 2009 10:36:21 GMT -5
I thought the Devil arranged for Sam to "win," even though Ben gave out the tickets. We know the Devil wants to tempt Sam to get more control over him and giving him a lot of $ is one way to go.
As for the episode itself, I was disappointed. Nowhere near the laughs I got from the last episode.
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Post by pending on Mar 26, 2009 17:26:33 GMT -5
Ohmygod, that's too funny. Not buying it-- Mr. O is an angel who needs a person-sized fridge? It's not like I'm psyched for the tired zombie jokes that are surely forthcoming, but angels, fallen or otherwise, don't rot. Mr. Oliver is definitely ex-human, not ex-angel. This is much more plausible, in the 'a gun revealed in act I must be fired in act III' tradition. No way did we get spoon-fed this for no reason. I don't think he wasn't going to pay for it, I just think he was in the moment and excited. Which made the Devil snatching it for Morgan's bail money all the more painful (which was probably the whole point). Wanting to keep the gold coins all for himself was (to me, anyway) less a matter of greed and more one of not letting Morgan get it. I have to say, I didn't understand Morgan and Sam's reactions when Gladys tells them they can keep the coins the first time around, but now it's probably my favorite take in the whole episode. The two of them actually play brothers pretty convincingly for such ridiculously different types. |
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Mar 27, 2009 5:05:06 GMT -5
I really liked this episode, the soul really creeped me out and that doesn't usually happen. Does Morgan remind anyone else of Captain Awesome from Chuck? No, but I did catch this one:   As for the episode itself, I was disappointed. Nowhere near the laughs I got from the last episode. I'd say heretic! But yeah, the last episode was pretty good too.  Not buying it-- Mr. O is an angel who needs a person-sized fridge? It's not like I'm psyched for the tired zombie jokes that are surely forthcoming, but angels, fallen or otherwise, don't rot. Mr. Oliver is definitely ex-human, not ex-angel. . W to the O to the R to the D. |
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kathyk
Demon
Bounty Hunter Extraordinaire
Posts: 165
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Post by kathyk on Mar 27, 2009 17:40:27 GMT -5
Another reason the Morgan/Sam rivalry works is the logic behind it. Morgan looks perfect to everyone and Sam's the only one who realizes how evil he really is. I never believed the Kyle/Sam rivalry because I sympathized with Sam and I hated Kyle which is what the writers didn't want.
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Post by cko on Mar 27, 2009 21:16:02 GMT -5
Beatrix, those are awesome! That term cracked me up too, I laughed out loud! I just may have to add to my t-shirt collection... |
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Mar 28, 2009 5:10:20 GMT -5
From the recap: Yes, *very* nice job Nina. Snerk. I have to agree. Speech really would have ruined that whole effect. Nice catch. I wish I had your thesaurus vocabulary, pace. Good job.
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Post by beatrixkiddoe on Mar 28, 2009 11:16:04 GMT -5
Thanks, cko! I'm glad you like them. |
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Post by Blue Sunflower on Mar 29, 2009 3:12:20 GMT -5
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Post by pending on Mar 29, 2009 8:31:29 GMT -5
'Baby Beer' is still my favorite. "Okay! It's a baby! That's all I can draw!"
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Post by beatrixkiddoe on Mar 29, 2009 8:36:39 GMT -5
Thanks, Blue! |
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